MARC Alums from Chevon and P&G share advice on putting insights into action.
When are people committed to gender partnership most likely to remain engaged? When they join MARC (Men Advocating Real Change) by Catalyst, an initiative that empowers men to create equitable workplaces, and participate in MARC programs.
The MARC Alum community is an active one and met at an invite-only luncheon during the 2024 Catalyst Awards Conference in New York. This engaging discussion featured a panel discussion with two passionate MARC alums: Karl Preissner, HR Director – Global Equality & Inclusion, P&G and Gavin Kimmel Category Manager; Executive Director of the Board, Men Advocating Real Change (MARC), Chevron. The discussion was moderated by Julie Nugent, Senior Vice President, Global Corporate Services & Community, Catalyst.
If you couldn’t be in the room, here are a few of the highlights:
Fear keeps men from engaging.
Only 31% of men feel confident interrupting sexist behaviors in the workplace.
Nugent said, “What we have found at Catalyst in our ‘Engaging Men’ research is that the number one reason that men often don’t engage in this topic is fear based, right? So, who here in the room, show a quick show of hands, has ever been afraid to say something or to speak up at work?” Every hand in the room went up.
Kimmel mentioned the Barbie film, “There’s a scene where one of the main characters talks about the dynamics of being a woman, how they have to be strong, yet submissive. I think in a sense too, like men struggle with that. You know, men are supposed to be stoic, yet sensitive. They’re supposed to be strong and an authority. But they also have to be meek and humble. And so there are a lot of these opposites that both genders struggle to reconcile.”
Imperfection is expected.
Preissner and Kimmel also had great advice for men who fear saying the wrong thing or not getting their point across the right way: There’s nothing wrong with not knowing what to say or how to say it. The important thing is to be willing to learn.
“Don’t wait to be perfect. Do not wait to have the answer,” Preissner said. “If I waited to be perfect, I never would have even started. The imperfections can be powers in themselves. When we have our MARC Dialogues, every session starts off with the leaders [doing] a cold open talking about the mistakes they’ve made.”
Senior leaders need to join in.
Senior leader participation is key to success. Catalyst MARC programming data show 56% of C-Suite leaders do not understand the key factors that contribute to gender inequity.
“The number one thing that gets men involved in gender equality is seeing senior men involved,” Preissner said. He cites that involvement as a contributing factor to P&G’s recent achievement of balanced gender representation in its management levels. “That is not accidental,” he said.
Kimmel told a story about his personal life and his experience at Chevron. When his first daughter was born, he noticed “that there was still quite a bit of inequity, and that the system really wasn’t designed to be supportive of both genders. It was very much, you know, designed and tailored for men.” And as he decided he needed to take action, Mike Wirth became CEO of Chevron and announced the introduction of MARC programming at the company. The CEO calling it out as a priority signaled that Kimmel’s enthusiasm would be well received. In fact, he was able to develop MARC programming for his area.
Context is key.
Meeting people where they are geographically is important, as Kimmel’s story shows. But what is said and how it is said are equally important. “I remember early, early days when we would have a conversation, sometimes they were an awkward fit,” Preissner said. “We’d have a conversation in Europe that sounded like it was a conversation appropriate for North America. Or we’d be sharing examples in Latin America that weren’t from the everyday lives of the people who were showing up.”
Those learning experiences prepared Preissner and others from P&G for their work as they partner with Catalyst to bring MARC programming to frontline employees as well. “That is also its own audience, culture, patterns, and we need to talk in ways that are relevant to them,” he said.
The impact goes beyond the workplace.
When men come together and have difficult conversations, the benefits are many. Kimmel said, “[MARC] tore down walls that I thought I had built up around me and just, you know, I was kind of living in a little bubble. I don’t think anybody self-identifies as a misogynist or as somebody who is just like, outwardly biased towards people. And so, what I love about MARC is it kind of like holds up a mirror to yourself. And you’re kind of like, ‘You’re not as cool as you think you are, bud.’”
Preissner agreed about the thoughts provoked in MARC session, saying, “You can’t put one group in a box without putting another group in a box. So what box am I in? And how is my relationship with my friends in that confinement?”
Kimmel said, “MARC is professionally impacting, it’s personally impacting, and it impacts the people around you. Like, there’s no part of your life that it won’t touch.”
Supporters can access a video of the luncheon.
Interested in bringing MARC Dialogue Teams, MARC Leaders Immersive, or other MARC programming to your organization? Get in touch below.